Success in Thought Leadership: Recognition, Connections and Strategy

Welcome. This is the Public Relations Review Podcast, a program to discuss the many facets of public relations with seasoned professionals, educators, authors and others. Now here is your host, Peter Woolfolk.

Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast and to our listeners all across America and around the world. Now here's the question for you what is thought leadership? Well, one answer is thought leadership is the expression of ideas that demonstrate you have expertise in a particular field, area or topic. However, many executives and business leaders strive to become a thought leader in their respective fields, now understand that it takes dedication, patience, strategy and education. My guest today will amplify on what it takes to become a thought leader. Joining me today, from New York City, is Don Bates, apr and fellow APR. He is the principal of the Bates company, where he specializes in public relations and business writing. In addition, he is also a consultant, trainer and a retired adjunct professor. So, don, welcome to the podcast.

Well, thank you, Peter, I'm glad to join you.

Look so, from your experience and your perspective, just what does it take to become a thought leader?

It's always a very good question. Certainly, the person has to develop the knowledge of their business and their profession. I always tell people to read books about public relations, about marketing, about trends and issues in business, be up to date on what's happening around you and in your organization and then be able to present it articulated so that the people around you are inspired to do better work and for you to help, as a thought leader, to lead the troops in the right direction, not necessarily arrogantly, with some humility, but somebody who cares about their job as something more than getting a paycheck and being there 40 hours a week. Somebody that has some intellectual interest in the company's goals success, the success of its top people, the success of the people around them. It's not rocket science, but it's a kind of interesting thing that there aren't a ton of people who fit that model. They're usually people that have spent time in the trenches, who have been thoughtful about what they are, who've been mentored. I had tremendous mentors over here who basically said this is a problem, you need to know more about this. Go to and I've always found that doing research, talking to people like you other senior leaders, other thought leaders you glean all these qualities, and then you've got to embrace them and use them in your daily practice.

And I think one of the other ways that the one identifies is that they're sought out. They, being thought leaders, are sought out simply because they have the qualities that you speak about, and people have begun to respect them for not only who they are, but what they know and how they go about explaining this to other people.

Yeah, a big thing is to be a trusted leader, as it were, to be, First of all, the show up is credible, concerned, thoughtful, and then people will begin to identify you as a person that's trusted, that they can talk to, they can talk with, they can ask questions of and not feel threatened, feel like this person's interests are not just about their own but mine, so to speak, a person that's talking to you. So you have to be a mentor in the people you work with and around you, and by doing that kind of stuff you gain the credibility. It's not something you say I'll check these boxes and I'll be credible. I think you show up as knowledgeable, articulate, concerned and interested in doing something larger than just advancing your own interests and we can add, well respected as well. Absolutely. I have, I've always been proud that that's how I showed up in the business, in the profession, in whatever I've ever done. And I felt one day Bob Dylan Schneider, who's a thought leader, obviously, some note I had lunch with him one day and he said you know, don, you know how nice your reputation is and I'm not a guy who's concerned with my reputation in the sense of, oh, wearing it as a badge on my chest but I was so kind of thrilled to hear it and I said, really, yeah, people really respect you. And I said, well, they don't say it. He says they're not going to say it. If you're good and you show up, they're going to want to talk to you, they're going to want to involve you in what they're doing, they're going to want you to be a leader in all kinds of ways, whether it's issues, whether it's the practice, whether it's an activity. And I walked out of that meeting and I was certainly very proud. And then, about an hour later, I said but that's all irrelevant, I've got to keep going the way I was going. Yes, he complimented me, yes, I compliment people, but the bottom line is, how did you act an hour later or a day?

later. Well, some of the other things I've noticed when they're talking about becoming a thought leader and maybe you're talking about that too as well is to avoid talking about yourself too much and to regularly produce some kind of content and you mentioned that in terms of speaking engagements, maybe articles in the newspaper, those sort of things where you continue giving advice and guidance to people who respect you.

You've got to give back. You've got to try to create more knowledge. You've got to clarify the knowledge. I make it a point to probably publish two to four articles a year little essays, commentaries. I also blog. I also try to be respectful. I do things with PRSA off and on. I'll comment if someone could be a new person in the business or someone who's been around for years and I just try to give them an idea or some things that they can do that are going to help them right now and not pontificate. And I think you're absolutely right the more you talk about yourself, that's time wasted in talking about the other people and that's a big thing is to engage other people. To say what do you think? I was taught way back by a guy who was a social worker. I go to meetings and I always make it a point, whether I'm running a meeting or whether I'm just a participant, to make sure that everybody there, even if there's 20 people, says something or has an opportunity. Most people are kind of shy. They leave it to the people that are most assertive, which is fine. But I always turn around and say hey, bill, you didn't say it, anybody else have any, bill, john, peter, mary, and people will throw in a even if they say no, not today, I don't have anything to talk about. But it's amazing how many people say thank you for asking me. I would like to. And the next thing you know, they participate, they turn around and they have more respect for you. You've just led a meeting In the sense of thought leadership. You've just led a meeting by getting everybody to say something and not leaving it up to Don and Peter and three or four people that are always kind of on top of things.

It's interesting because in reading an article there are a lot of qualities that they think thought leaders should have you know, courage, awareness of industry trends, interpersonal skills and communication skills, public speaking skills, critical thinking skills those sort of things are included, I guess, in the overall assessment of one that is viewed as a thought leader.

Well, one of the things I'm big on and I wrote an article not long ago and Comp Probe is about getting to know people's names. Getting to get to a meeting early, before people assemble Hi, I'm Don Bates, or hi, oh, hey, peter, how you doing? And spend a little time connecting with the people, get to talk to them by name. A name is your identity. How many people don't? They don't even know some of their staff. I was in a restaurant the other day and I said to a bartender I said who's the guy, who's the chef, what's his name? And this guy's worked there for four or five years. He said, honest to God, I don't know and I didn't say anything. But I was thinking he is a bartender in a very, very fine restaurant. He doesn't know the name of the chef. What does that say about the respect? Fast forward, I heard that the bartender was fired because he got into a fight argument with the chef and it all came out that he was considered ineffectual, that the bartender didn't care about the people there Gone. So, knowing the people, talking to the people, I used to tell my sales team go to a meeting a half hour, an hour before it starts, and they'd say why. I'd say that's the only time you're going to have a chance to have quality time in a sec with the people you want to talk to, in terms of whatever the business was at that time, and they would be begrudged. But then they'd come back and they'd say oh, I met this one, I met this one. You show up at the meeting starts. How much time do you have to talk to anybody except the business at hand? So, personal skills, knowing the person's names, writing them down if you have to practice them, identifying people, complimenting people for something really great. Someone has a great idea at a meeting. Give it away. Just say, damn Mary, I haven't heard anything like that for so long. The person feels like they belong. You build ownership among people as a leader. You build ownership in the company, in the program, in the division, in the piece of writing. Life is more than just checking the boxes. It's making sure that what needs to be done is done despite checking the boxes. That's the key. Nobody in top management ever says did you do this, this, this and this? They want to know how's it going. It's great, we've been getting terrific press. So we had a wonderful event where the president showed up and he told me to send regards to you and your kids. That's all they want to hear. They want to know. No surprises, things are moving ahead. They don't know the drill. You're hired to do the drill, they're not. They want to know is it happening? Are you making it happen? You do that and they put around. They say that guy, bill, don or Peter, they're a comer, move them up.

One of the other things and I think we're basically thinking the same way in terms of leadership and that is leadership know that people in their company is like recognition yes, they're doing a good job. You know from speaking to them today and, as you said, giving some recognition at a meeting or presentation or asking how the family is doing accomplishments of the kids, that sort of thing. That goes a long way in terms of making people respect you and want to work in it, before your company and for you.

Right, but do it genuinely. I mean you know. I mean it can be a little bit. You go to a meeting, you gotta work the room, but you want to be genuine. You know how's the kids? And if you're not, oh, I heard your kids going to college Terrific, that's great. Little tiny things. And you said recognition. Their identity is about how they feel about themselves. And if you don't let them talk at meetings and you don't say, bill, you know, or you get them beforehand, say you know, bill, you never speak up at the meetings and I get it. You're kind of quiet and shy. Let me say what you you know. I'm going to ask you at some point would you talk about such and such because you did such a great job? And the next thing, you know, this person's the skin is growing, their eyes are bright and they want to do more, absolutely so giving back. I write things about people, I write things that I think are useful to people and I never, well almost never, write anything with not having takeaways, because I don't want the person to read it and think, oh, what a terrific idea. I want them to say, oh, there's three ideas I can share with my staff, what three ideas I can use on my own, on my own every day, or that I can tell my kids Now you were an adjunct professor.

Did any of the things that you taught in college cover the leadership area here?

Oh sure, I taught at Columbia, I taught at NYU, I taught at George Washington University. In fact, I set up a graduate degree program at GW. So leadership comes up constantly. The problem sometimes with college courses in graduate school is there's a curriculum and a set of courses that you have to cover, and some of them are very mechanical. They're not always about management, or management issues come up, but I always used to, at the end of my classes similar to where I write articles I'd say OK, guys, let's take the next 15 minutes and let's talk about what did you glean from this, and not whether you get an A or a B, just any comment. What did you glean from this that was going to help you in your career? And they might say they're talking about writing. They might say, well, it had nothing to do with writing, but you said something. Or Mary said something about learning people's names. You know that's probably the most important thing today and I'm going great. Anything that they can, but let them have an opportunity to express it. I've had students say nothing, I didn't like it, it was a boring class, terrific. Can you tell me why? Or do you want to say in front of the class I'm a grown-up. Sometimes I say, wow, you know, you talked too much about this, or Mary was talking too much about herself, or everybody here seems to be too preoccupied with what happened to Biden and Trump yesterday or something. And terrific. It's contributing to the whole. It's making the process work. It's making people learn, contribute, talk, discuss the hell with the fact that I went over. What's a good news release. They get that. They'll get it. What they need to know is the what am I dealing with? What do I need to do? What are my goals? What does management want? How do I enable that in such a way that I move the company forward or the nonprofit forward or the government agency forward and you can just feel good at the end of the day, even if no one patch you on the back. If they patch you on the back, that's icing on the cake.

You know, from time to time, as a result of this podcast, I've been asked to speak to a college PR students by virtually, and I've done that to some universities all around the world, all over the country, and one of the things that I want to talk to them about is not what you're learning in your PR classes, but what does it take to advance. What are people looking for once you get in there and you have a job? And they're looking for doers, people who are willing to take on the extra work, who are interested in knowing how to get something done. You know, let's call it the office politics. How does that work? Is there any benefit to that? Who do I need to know? What does they need to know about me? Those kinds of things that help them rather than doing. Yes, we want you to do the job that you were assigned, but the office politics are some things that aren't assigned, but they're built in and you should know what they are and how do you navigate these successfully?

Right? Well, you should be certainly in the public relations field. You should think and act like a professional. You should look at your job every day as not just Don Bates doing his thing, but Don Bates doing what he's responsible for in such a way that not only does it get done by me but enables other people to do it as well. So, just being aware you say, of who's in the office, what they're concerned with, listening to who they are and finding out, because sometimes there are people that just don't connect with you in the beginning you may be a threat, you may feel you're too powerful or you're not powerful enough, but they get to know them. So you say, hey, you want to go out for a cup of coffee or go out to lunch, not to talk business, just to chat. And the next thing you know, you got a friend, and friends want to help each other. Even if it's a reluctant friend, they want to help you. So, getting to know the people, getting to know the turf, but in particular, knowing the goals and if you don't know them clearly enough, talk to the people that are in charge. Find out what other you know. It's easy to say, oh, I write a news release. Okay fine, but how many people stop and think what are our goals for the company? Is there some way I can get that into the news release, Even though the news release is about a can of sunscreen? One of the goals is to become again big, again pharmaceuticals, and so in there you could say sunscreen, and then you could put it there. Maybe they find a paragraph or something from the annual report or somewhere where you say win number three in the production of sunscreens or we've been awarded this or that Little tiny things that continually add to the perception of the company's success and forward its goals. It's something to walk in every day and say you know, I got a big job here, I can help move this company forward, and that's a terrific thing to want, as opposed to going to oh god, I'm going to write another news release.

Well, you know, there's no question about it, you always want to find a way to make it have more horsepower, I guess it's the best way to put it. So you know, then just cranking out a news release. But you know one of the other things that you talked about. There's some other benefits. You know thought leadership, because actually thought leadership benefits the organization you work for. And maybe some people don't necessarily recognize that and they don't necessarily become a thought leader to do that, but it happens anyway because of the respect that your company gets as a result of the way you have handled yourself.

And no business that I know of, no nonprofit that I know of, no government agent I know of, can move forward successfully if they don't have people who are thinking ahead and thinking about what needs to be done in the largest sense, as opposed to what the report said or the plan said. Moving with the moment, you just can't get there without thinking, and thinking is, you know, can be goosey, goosey, but you've got to keep your eye on the ball and keep saying, well, how can I do it better, how can I make this move, how can I achieve this particular goal? Or how can I add something in the speech? Or how, come at the activity, what can I do to make sure that everybody gets a chance to talk? Or how do I get the CEO to appreciate something being done by somebody somewhere in the company that you think is someone who's a star and doing these things again, not just walking in and saying, hey, by the way, this is a woman on California, she's terrific, you should know about, you know, there are other ways you walk. By the way, I just had a conversation with this woman on California, lydia, and oh yeah, I say she is really, you know, she's extremely interested in doing her job Well. That's all you have to say. Plant a seed or a tree will grow, you know. Plant a seed so the people will feel like you know I'm going to get better and the company's going to recognize me. And if they don't, if you do your job, you do it well. I used to have people happy our firm for years. I used to say to people when they first came if you ever want to leave, let me know. I will give you as much time as you can to prepare for that. I don't want to have you suddenly walk out on a Friday night For whatever reason. Money or your relationship is breaking down. I want to help you, but I want you to do it in such a way it helps me. That's what people on top want to know that I'm being helped. They want to know that the you know the ball is being kicked down the field. All of minutiae is fine. That's for the people in the trenches of you as a manager or a boss. But the top dogs I never heard one sit there and say how many news editions right. They just want to know. That story we've got in the Wall Street Journal I wish it had said more of this or that. Put that in your head Next time you do something an interview with the Wall Street Journal make sure you get that handled and you don't have to brag. You don't have to brag about your success. You really don't it shows up.

Well, don you know, you've actually provided us with a great insight in terms of being a thought leader, or wanting to be a thought leader, and what you need to get there. Are there any closing remarks that you think that we might benefit from before we call it a day?

There's so many. In a way, I just think to go back over what I said. If you can, if you can tolerate it, listen to it for another half hour and take some notes and some takeaways. And I think the most important thing, it's kind of a I don't mean this in some politically correct way, but it's up to you. Take the reins quietly, with some humility. Show your stuff. Work on behalf of the organization, Do things for others, do things for the organization, do things for top management. You'll be recognized, and if you're not and you move on to someplace else, you'll have had all that experience that you take with you Well, don.

Thank you so so very, very much for being our guest today on the Public Relations Review, and if you've enjoyed the Public Relations Review podcast today with Don Bates, please drop us a note. We'd like to hear from you. We'd also like for you to share this information with your colleagues and friends and also join us for the next edition of the Public Relations Review podcast. Thank you.

This podcast is produced by Communication Strategies, an award-winning public relations and public affairs firm headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you for joining us.