Transcript
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Welcome.
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This is the Public Relations Review Podcast, a program to discuss the many facets of public relations with seasoned professionals, educators, authors and others.
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Now here is your host, peter Woolfolk.
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Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast and to our listeners all across America and around the world.
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This podcast is ranked by Apple as being among the top 1% of podcasts worldwide, so thank you to all of our guests and listeners for making this possible, and please leave your review after the podcast, because we certainly like to see what you think about the show Now.
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Many PR pros believe landing a placement in mainstream media will reach their desired audience.
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Well, in some cases yes, In some cases no.
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However, with smaller media staff, mainstream media may not get the results you anticipate.
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So the question becomes have you thought about tailoring your news for specific audiences?
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Have you paid attention to trade media.
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My guest today will provide you with some valuable insights on outreach through trade media to your specific audiences.
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That's right trade media.
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So my guest today is Nicole Schumann.
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She is a writer with PR News Online and she joins us today from Alexandria, virginia.
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So, nicole, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you for having me.
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I appreciate it.
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Well, first of all, give us an overview of just what trade media is.
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Basically, they are specific publications, but you know, nowadays they can also be e-newsletters, they can also be live stream videos, those sorts of things that are covering a specific industry.
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So you can find trade media that are specific to things like dentistry.
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You can find media trade media that is specific to defense contracting.
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You can find it for people that are covering food business, those sorts of things.
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So what we do is I work for PR News and we cover the PR and communications industry, so our articles and our content is directed towards that community.
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So for a PR person, they really have to look at what it is that they're talking about and perhaps in some cases find that portion of what they're working on that fits in a particular trade or area.
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Yep, absolutely, and we work with people from all ends of the spectrum.
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A lot of our readers work at agencies, so they have all different types of clients that they work with.
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Some of our readers are in-house, so they may work for a beauty brand, or they may work in higher education, they may work in health care, so they need to find the outlets that are specific to those industries that they are working with.
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I'm just wondering how often do you run into PR people who are not familiar with the trade publications, who are not familiar.
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Yes.
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On occasion.
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I think maybe if you're earlier in your career you don't really realize everything that's out there.
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You need to learn about the industry that you're in.
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Some publications are smaller than others.
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I'm thinking of Industry Dive as an example of a company that has a lot of different arms that cover different industries.
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They have Marketing Dive, they have HR Dive, they have Restaurant Dive.
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People may have dives.
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They have restaurant dives.
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People may have heard of them because they're bigger, but they may not have, whereas if you're looking at something like Forbes or Wall Street Journal, those aren't necessarily trade publications but they cover business specifically.
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People may think about that in a more broader aspect.
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They are out there.
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You just have to look for them.
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If you work in education, almost everyone that works in higher education knows the Chronicle of Higher Education and that is their, you know, obviously main trade publication, and when a trade publication is really good, they're able to tell stories that can appeal to all sorts of people, even people that don't work in that industry.
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So you know you really have to do your research and look for them all sorts of people, even people that don't work in that industry.
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So you know you really have to do your research and look for them.
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I don't run into a lot of people that do not know trade publications.
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I run into people that don't know my trade publication or they confuse it with another PR trade publication, because there are quite a few.
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There's PR Week, there's PR Daily, there's Ad Age, there's Ad Week.
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You know so a lot of people writing about the different aspects of PR and what it means, and we all try to kind of differentiate ourselves.
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When you look at these different publications per industry, they may be covering things in different ways.
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You know, for example, I get a lot of pitches about mergers and acquisitions.
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We don't cover mergers and acquisitions.
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I get a lot of pitches about mergers and acquisitions.
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We don't cover mergers and acquisitions.
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I'm happy to know about, you know, any kind of promotions, any kind of new people that are coming in that might be good for sources in the future, but we don't do that Now.
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If you read PR Week, they cover mergers and acquisitions.
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So that's you know.
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We're trying to differentiate ourselves from each other in the things that we're doing.
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You know, we're trying to all differentiate ourselves from each other in the things that we're doing.
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You know, the other thing I think about too is that, particularly for large industries and I do some work for the National Health Department and I want to say there's so many different areas and arenas there that that means if I were to call you, I need to fine-tune a particular area that I want to talk about or pitch you about.
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Would that be the way of going about it?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I mean I have worked on health care stories before for PR News.
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A lot of times I talk to people in health care communications positions.
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I reported a lot during COVID on external communications, how to work with the community, how to communicate in emergency situations, how to communicate opening and closing of things.
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So that was a way that a lot of I worked with a lot of different people in health care communications, for example.
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Or, you know, sometimes someone might pitch me like like hey, we're doing this new campaign, these are the kind of tools that we're using for it, where we decided to, you know, launch a video game, um, to get people interested in what we're doing.
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Um, you know, would you guys be interested in writing about the campaign because it's a new and different technology.
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So I get pitches like that, talking about campaigns.
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So so, you know, obviously, yeah, for us, we want to, you know, share with other communicators in the industry the different things that people are doing and how we can learn from them.
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You know, for example, even if I am writing about something in healthcare communications, I want to pull something out so that anybody in communications could learn from this.
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You know whether it's you know something out so that anybody in communications could learn from this.
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You know, whether it's you know about crisis communications or it's about a new way of using digital media.
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So that's you know kind of how I'm looking at things.
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But yeah, I mean, I mean someone could approach me from oh, I've done articles with Wisconsin cheese, which is the promotional arm of, of of officially of cheese of Wisconsin, and they have an amazing communications team and you know we've done stories in regards to.
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You know how they work with journalists that are not in their area.
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You know to kind of expose them to products and do interviews and those sorts of things.
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You know to kind of expose them to products and do interviews and those sorts of things.
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So you know it.
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Really, you need to read from the PR person's perspective.
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You really need to read the publication, read some articles and kind of see, get a feel of what they're looking for when you are approaching them.
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Even in the trade media, have you begun to be maybe being pitched on different things of how artificial intelligence is being used in certain trade industries or certain areas?
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Oh, all the time it is a huge topic, especially within the communications industry, within PR.
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I get a lot of people pitching me tools that they're working on, tools that they're using, how they're using them, articles about ethics and AI, disclosure, articles on how to write pitches with AI, how to write press releases with AI, what makes it a good one, what makes it a bad one, all those sorts of things.
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We've done workshops on this.
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We have done live events on this.
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It is something that our readership can't seem to get enough of.
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You know, because so many people are working with this in the industry and in some ways, it's making their work more efficient.
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But there are always, you know, nothing is.
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There's always a yin and a yang.
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Nothing is perfect, so there's also a very human element to it and we get a lot of pitching to write contributed pieces about that and how you can use the tools responsibly.
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But it is a huge topic in the industry right now.
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Well, I've done several shows on it.
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One because I certainly use artificial intelligence in the component of completing my shows.
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For instance, this show, the transcript will be done by AI, so I don't have to sit down and try to figure it all out.
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It'll separate.
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You know my name, your name.
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I go around and plug the names in.
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It will also then offer some suggestions for the title of the show of this particular episode.
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I can look at them, I can accept them, I can modify them or I can just completely write my own.
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It's there.
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It also puts together snippets for social media.
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There's a snippet for Facebook or X and so forth, and so on and so on, and it certainly does come in handy in a wide range of areas.
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So I just wanted to make sure that it hadn't skipped over trade publications or the use of it by those getting into trade publications.
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Oh, yeah, no, and a note on that, because I actually did another podcast a couple weeks ago and they just sent me a blog that they wrote about it and they include parts of the transcript on it.
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And they wanted me to read it to make sure everything you know sounded correct and things like that.
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And I'm reading it, and I'm reading the transcript, which I know was, you know, definitely it correct and things like that.
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And I'm reading it and I'm reading the transcript, which I know was, you know, definitely put together by AI, and I said I went back and I said you guys need to go back and read this, because a lot of sentences in here don't make sense and you probably know this, like generating a transcript and then reading it back, a lot of times it doesn't catch everything or it catches the wrong word and it doesn't make sense.
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So and this is you know, I think this is common sense but if you are utilizing a tool like that, you need to also go back, and I mean that's just the grammar person.
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I mean you always need to go back and reread and double check because there will be errors, I guarantee you a hundred% of the time.
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So you want to make sure that what you're putting out to the public then is readable and, you know, without errors and things like that.
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Because, too, that's you know, that's the first thing at the podcast.
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That's their reputation at stake as well and you don't want to leave that completely in the hands of AI.
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So I think, like I was saying, a yin and yang, a balance, utilizing the tools but then going back and doing some human surveillance, I think is good for that.
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And I will tell you, the person that emailed me this blog thanked me profusely.
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They checked the things that needed to be corrected.
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Well, I sort of agree with you on that, because there are some mistakes.
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I mean the way a person's name is maybe misspelled in there.
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That can be a bit tricky sometimes, that sort of thing to this.
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What are some of the maybe from your perspective, some of the biggest complaints you might have had for people pitching you on covering something for them?
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Complaints I have with their pitches.
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Right.
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Okay, I get geez.
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I have a couple complaints.
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Number one the thing that really gets me, is if you get my name wrong.
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I understand people are human, but when I see that or you know name of another person or something, I'm thinking that someone is just sending me pitches out on autopilot, a technique that we usually call spray and pray, which is, you know, maybe they're sending out hundreds of pitches trying to get one.
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And you know, if someone's like dear Mark, I know, like they don't know me as a journalist, they, you know they're.
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They're just they're not doing their due diligence.
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And I, you know I could talk about media relations all day, but so that's, that's probably my number one.
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I usually, if it's someone I don't know, I will give them a second chance and write them back and say, hey, that's not my name.
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Similar thing, when someone is addressing me but they'll say, oh, hey, nicole, been reading your work in PR Week or PR Daily, and I'll just write back and say that's not my publication.
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That is really offensive to me, not because I don't like their publications I think anyone who works at any of those publications does an amazing job but because that's just that's lazy in my opinion.
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Like you know you need to know where people work.
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Go on their LinkedIn.
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Like you know you need to know where people work, go on their LinkedIn and you know kind of kind of write you know with you know a little bit of respect and anticipation there.
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That stuff really makes me crazy.
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What else makes me crazy in a pitch?
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I mean I, I have, I feel so bad, like my email is just overflowing at the moment, but you know I, I mean I'm getting like 100 emails a day, sometimes more, um, so I don't have time to read and and this is different, everybody's different but the majority of journalists, they want a subject line that's to the point, like don't make me, don't have it vague, so I have to guess what you're talking about.
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And then, as far as a pitch, I like maybe like one paragraph or like a couple sentences and then, if you have more information, attach a press release.
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That's always helpful.
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You know I can't, I can't be scrolling through, you know, email all day trying to get to the point of what you guys want to pitch me about.
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Shorter pitches from me is always great, just because we can always go back and forth then and talk more about it.
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The attached press release is always helpful with a quote.
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That's even more helpful.
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Quotes that just say you know, pat Smith, ceo of Good Life magazine, says they're very excited about the launch of this new product, and most people know that.
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That's a quote.
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It's never going to get in an article.
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It doesn't explain anything.
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Of course.
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They're excited about a launch.
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You know, so I mean a quote, I'll get into a story then is you know, and a lot of times we don't have time to do interviews we try, but if it's, you know, like a quick piece or you know, you want to include it, some kind of roundup or something like that.
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Like having a quote from leadership that's interesting, that provides some kind of insight, is really welcomed.
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So I kind of threw a lot in there.
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But, yeah, get the name right, get the name of the publication right, keep it short and make sure you have good quotes.
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Those are my big things, that I enjoy.
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My big things that I enjoy, honestly, the best pitches I've had.
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You know, the best PR people I've worked with.
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I've developed relationships with them.
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So they know what works for our publication, they know what we don't write about.
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And even if it is something we don't write about, they'll approach me in a way where you know they've been thoughtful about it.
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They'll try to provide me with ideas.
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I'm like, oh, you could cover the story this way, or blah, blah, blah, you know.
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So that's always kind of nice.
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And then, once you do get to know a journalist and they've written about you a few times, it's always nice if you can offer them some kind of exclusive.
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I would say nine times out of ten.
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They'll usually write about what you're offering if it's applicable to the publication.
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So you know, don't get those all the time.
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We're not the New York Times, but that's okay.
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We're not trying to be, so that's always kind of nice when that's available.
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You know one of the things that I learned when I started working on Capitol Hill.
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One of my very first jobs was with the chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee and one of the reporters up there told me he said you know, if you want to get coverage, you know, bring everything we need.
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You know it's one thing to do the interview, but if there's data that goes along with it fine Photographs.
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You know, comments, can we?
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But if there's data that goes along with it fine photographs, comments can we sit down with the congressman and talk directly to him?
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Those kinds of things that we know right up front that we can get done will certainly make the path for getting interviews a lot easier and much more supportable when they pitch it, I guess, to the editors.
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No, absolutely portable when they, when they pitch it, I guess, to the, to the editors?
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No, absolutely.
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Um, I spend, I feel like I spend too much time looking for photos to go with my articles.
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Um, you know, because we have to.
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You know, we can't use like you can't just like, take a photo off the internet it has to be licensed, it has to be approved that kind of stuff and you know we're a smaller publication so we don't have access to like a getty.
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You know we we have, um, you know we use shutterstock, which is um very helpful, um with licensed photography and things like that.
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But um, yeah, I always, you know, will appreciate some kind of photo.
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Um, if you're talking about a campaign, if you're talking about a specific product or something you're working on, that's always really helpful.
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So I'm not spending 20, 30 minutes, sometimes an hour of my day, looking for a photo that would go with what we're talking about.
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So that's always very helpful and needed.
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Okay, well, nicole, I know you provide us with a great deal of information here today.
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Is there anything that we may have missed that you think we should know about in terms of dealing with trade publications.
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Oh geez, just don't forget about them.
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I think the beauty of trade publications is that you know sometimes if you're in a mainstream publication, there's no guarantee that you're going to be hitting the audience that you want to hit right.
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You know you can have a story in the New York Times, but the New York Times is a big paper and people aren't necessarily always going to see your story.
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They might not care about it.
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You know, because there's maybe they're reading it.
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To you know, read about politics, or they're reading the paper.
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To you know, read an update on a book that came out or something like that.
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They're not necessarily reading the website or the paper or something like that.
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To you know, read about, you know, your new healthcare product or something of that nature.
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When you appeal to a trade, you know the audience that you're getting.
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You know who you are appealing to and I think you're getting more direct readership because, also, a lot of trade publications you have to subscribe to, um, or there's a paywall, uh, so the people that are reading it are really investing the time, um and energy and uh, you know, to give the subscribers what they're looking for, um, so I think that's you know.
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That's pretty interesting.
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One other thing I wanted to mention was, um, substack.
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Substack is where a lot of very, very good journalists are going to put out their own newsletters, so to speak, but newsletters that cover different aspects of news.
00:21:11.597 --> 00:21:13.328
You might call them niche newsletters.
00:21:13.328 --> 00:21:16.396
You know, you can subscribe to different ones on travel.
00:21:16.396 --> 00:21:23.699
You can subscribe to different ones on politics, on politics, different ones on business technology, those sorts of things.
00:21:23.699 --> 00:21:37.036
So it also is good to take a look at Substack, for example, where you might be able to find a journalist that's really specific, that has an amazing following.
00:21:37.036 --> 00:21:44.928
Some of these journalists have millions of followers, um, on sub stack and they pay to get to receive their newsletter and to receive this news.
00:21:44.928 --> 00:22:00.381
So you're really getting a specific niche there, um, but that's another option rather than, you know, just pitching a thousand journalists, or right, or, you know, trying to get in a glamour magazine or something.
00:22:00.381 --> 00:22:06.738
Sometimes doing things more focused can be more worthwhile in the end.
00:22:08.385 --> 00:22:12.517
Well, nicole, let me say thank you so very, very much for being on our podcast today.
00:22:12.517 --> 00:22:21.758
We certainly have appreciated it and the fact that you've shared this little wealth of information for people to give some very, very serious consideration to trade publications.
00:22:21.758 --> 00:22:32.993
I know, having worked in Washington DC and several other places, how important at least they are there and that importance perhaps spreads across the US, so more of our listeners should take advantage of that.
00:22:34.265 --> 00:22:36.653
Absolutely, absolutely, and thank you for having me.
00:22:36.653 --> 00:22:37.174
This was great.
00:22:37.644 --> 00:22:38.761
Well, I appreciate that and I'm going to say thank you for having me.
00:22:38.761 --> 00:22:38.875
This was great.
00:22:38.875 --> 00:22:41.776
Well, I appreciate that and I'm going to say thank you for my listeners as well.
00:22:41.776 --> 00:22:53.992
If you'd like more information or to get a copy and download the podcast, do that, and you can communicate with Nicole a bit more if you need to, and we'd also like to get a review from you.
00:22:53.992 --> 00:23:10.997
So, don't forget, you can go to our website at wwwpublicrelationsreviewpodcastcom and leave your review there, and also don't forget to share this information with your colleagues and also listen to the next edition of the Public Relations Review Podcast.
00:23:14.945 --> 00:23:25.240
This podcast is produced by Communication Strategies, an award-winning public relations and public affairs firm headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee.
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.191
Thank you for joining us.
