Failing to get your op-eds placed? This PR pro explains why..and guidance to increase your chances.

Welcome. This is the public relations review, pawned cars of program to discuss the many facets of public relations with seasoned professionals, educators, authors, and others. Now here is your host, Peter Woolfolk,

Welcome to the public relations review podcast and to all listeners all across America and around the world. Now, many public relations professionals have often written our bed pieces for our clients. With the goal of having it successfully placed either in a local newspaper or in one of the more nationally recognized newspapers. Unfortunately, when it comes to the larger, more recognized newspapers, the op-ed rate is actually a Bismal. So why are your op-ed pieces being rejected? Well, my guest today has an answer for you now. He came to my attention several days ago when I read his article seven reasons why your op-ed was rejected. Bob Brody is a public relations consultant, a veteran of Weber, Sandrich, and Ogilvy. And he has an essay who contributes to the wall street journal, the New York times and the Washington post. Now he joins me today from Martina franca in Italy. Well, thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast today.

I am happy to join you, Peter.

One of the things that you say that most admissions after a long decline, getting your guests essays to run in the New York times, for example, is probably harder than admission to Harvard or which is really serious or trying to reason with an alligator. So we were really must be talking about an uphill battle. Here

Is a big challenge, and it's no exaggeration to say that it's tough. I've done this sort of stuff for a long time now, and it's proven to me every day, but that of course never stops us from trying. It never stops clients from wanting to be in one of the top publications and from expecting a PR person to be able to deliver. So we keep striving, but then sometimes, uh, happily enough almost miraculously, you might say it does happen. One does get a piece in the New York times or one of the other publications.

Well, I tell you let's start at the top then, and let's talk about what some of those problems are that lead to rejection. Uh, the first one you say is space what's happening there.

Yes. Well, I mean, on the print side, there is just so much room. So for example, the New York times op ed page will have generally three pieces, four pieces, and it's especially challenging for someone submitting what they now call a guest essay because the times has its regular columnists. And that's true of all the major papers. They all have, uh, lots of columnists in some cases, dozens of colonists and those columnists have a certain space on a set day and that they occupy. So, uh, when it comes to the print edition, there there's only so much room. There are publications that do have op-eds that will run only online and not in the print edition. And so the there's less of a limitation. If your piece is going to run online, one example I can give you is the New York daily news, which, uh, which I've contributed to, and which has pieces that will run online, that people who buy the daily paper might never see unless they go online and look,

Well, this is somewhat of an aside, but have you found part of the difficulty might also be because of the dwindling number of newspapers look, consolidation of newspapers has that added to this problem?

Yes. I mean, it's, there's kind of a dual answer there because on the one hand, yes, there are fewer newspapers, but it does seem to me that there are still more publications out there, particularly digital publications that present opportunities for op-eds. So I think it's fair to say that there are probably probably balances out so that there may actually be more opportunities than ever before, because there are so many, there's so many new outlets. I mean, you have Fox media Vox and you have a morning consult and do you have other strictly digital outlets that, that will run opinion pieces and, and opinion pieces seem to be more prized than ever I think. Yeah. So, so I, I think that, uh, there, there there's no shortage of opportunities out there.

Well, you mentioned the other issue is timing of a bed.

It's true. I mean, a, you may put together a piece about the infrastructure bill. That's now working through Congress and just find out that the, uh, that there's, uh, there's been a new development. And so now your pieces outdated, that's hard to control. It's hard to prevent from happening, but, but it does happen. So sometimes you're, you're just, you're too late with a piece and sometimes you're too early. Sometimes you submit a piece that ahead of its time. And so also something that's outside your control is that you may have submitted a piece about a topic that somebody else just sent in a piece about, and the editor might've chosen that piece already. So if you've written about the immigration crisis or the border crisis as it's called, and somebody else has sent in a piece about that topic that the editor already said yes to then unfortunately you're out of luck. So, um, and it's, it's hard to control something like this. I mean, these are, these are matters of chance. And so it is almost always something of a crap shoot.

Well, it sounds a little bit like a, the, the next one has maybe comes in with timing as well, but you also mentioned conflicts as another reason.

Yes. And I'm trying to remember exactly what I wrote. I'm sorry. Okay.

We said that contributed already addressed the same issue yesterday,

Right? Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's a similar, it's a similar issue to what I just mentioned. So that's what it comes down to.

Well, let me ask you now and go through these because perhaps the next one that answered my question. When you mentioned stature, uh, in terms of how these things are selected to be printed the statue of the person.

Yes, exactly. I mean one, I mean, especially if you're going for a national publication, but I think this is true of local publications as well. One must be qualified. I mean, everybody, I mean, as they say here, everybody has, has an opinion. Opinions are free and easy to come by, but are you qualified? I mean, are you, if you're, if you're going to be talking about, if you're going to talk about climate change or are you an environmentalist or you a, uh, geologists, are you, uh, have you, have you recently published a book that says climate change is a hoax or that climate change is actually worse than anyone suspected? Uh, it's expected that someone will have some kind of credentials and, uh, in some cases it's probably, uh, it's helpful just to have a title of some sort that might be impressive. So if you're a chief, what do I want to call it? If you're, if you're with a scientific organization, if you're the president of a scientific organization, or if you're a professor of microbiology or something at a prestigious university, those are details whether we like it or not, that will generally prejudice and editor in your favor, but one absolutely has to be qualified and to be a subject matter expert, someone who has expertise that is somehow been demonstrated already. So, um, that's always key. And that's the question that I put to clients all the time, because I want to make sure that we have the most, I mean, a client will say, we'd like to hold forth on a issue, a, B or C, and I will say, and they will say, who do you think should write that? And so I may say it's the chief clinical officer or some board somebody who's actually conducted a piece of research where it's someone who's trying to pass a piece of legislation or regulation of some kind. So the qualifications count for a law.

Now you also mentioned originality to help us they'll work our way through that one as well.

Yeah. I mean that it's understood that people have opinions that agree with other people, but editors are generally looking for something that is what they like to call. Counter-intuitive what I prefer to call against the grain or provocative, or just somehow different from what we've heard before. Editors are always on the lookout for something that is, is taking a stand that maybe nobody's taken before and can offer a look at a subject that's different from what people have said before. That makes you say well, okay. I never, I never thought of it quite that way. So I think there there's a, there's a very high premium on that. It's easy. I mean, if you're, if you're just going to agree with what that paper's editorial page has already weighed in on, then you're, then you're going to have a stiff challenge in front of you. But if you, if you're going to argue about why, and I guess I'll go back to climate change, why the, why the scientists who believed that climate change is a dire emergency, why they're exaggerated or how show, how their science is wrong or something along those lines. Generally, it's what I'll call the bunkers, where you, where you're just debunking something that is conventional wisdom or something that most people generally accept as an article of faith. If you're, so if you're, if you're running counter to what other people are saying, or if you're just looking at it from a, from a different angle, I think that's helpful. So originality makes a big difference,

You know, as I listened to you talk about originality. I think just a lot of thinking out loud here, it appears to me that, uh, went from town to town when I listened to people on Ted talks. Uh, some of the things that they talk about could maybe be ahead of their time, or they're looking at problems or issues differently doing those talks that some of that information, if it's timely, it could also be converted into an op-ed piece.

Yeah. I, um, I, I'm going to acknowledge that I am, yes. I'm somewhat familiar with kickback. I don't spend a lot of time watching it, so I'm going to have to take your word for it, but maybe that's what gets people, lots of followers on pick doc. I mean, there's things, something that nobody's ever seen before, or what what's especially exciting, I think is when somebody says something that you sort of had kicking around in your head, but never quite was able to articulate it and somebody will, somebody will write something to the effect. So that, so that you will say, oh, you know, I sort of wondered about that. Uh, and, but nobody's ever crystallized that for me. And, and that, and that sounds about right. So, so that does help a lot. I, and I realized it's, it's tough to be original, but again, I pushed back on clients when, when it seems necessary and say, well, you know, it's great that your client is going to say that he's in favor of electric cars. Client wants to Mount another insurrection on the white house. But I think, I think we need to offer up something that spells out explicitly why this point of view is different from what other people that are already set,

Uh, with what you've said. I just wanted to be clear. Uh, I did say Ted T E D talks and not tick top, but I think your answer fit right into what one gets on Ted talks. When you hear people talking about those different ideas, I think Ted is technology education and whatever else the, uh, that letter stands for, but that your, your response to that fits right into what they do. And talking about new ideas, new approaches, new solutions to some problems that might've been around for a while.

Excellent. Yes. And there are some great Ted talks and yes, some of those Ted talks would make great opinion pieces. Absolutely.

Now you also mentioned in here, empiricism,

Yes. Sorry if I sound a little academic there, but all I meant to say was that people, um, often are under the misapprehension. That opinion pieces are nothing but opinion that all you have to do is say that, uh, that this candidate is better than that candidate. And maybe even say why, but without presenting anything other than, than your opinion. If so, if you're going to write something about why Amtrak needs to be scuttled or why Republicans are going in the wrong direction, you need to bring some facts to bear. So I I'm, I'm a very much of the belief that you can, you can have an opinion on the op-ed pages, if you have the facts. And it does seem to me more and more over the decades that facts are more prized than ever when it comes to opinion pieces that editors demand and expect and insist on pieces that have some sort of data, some survey, a study poll, whatever it might be, so that there is an underpinning, there's a factual underpinning to the opinion. So you can say, well, I think electric cars are a dumb idea. And then maybe cite a survey showing that that 50% of Americans tend to agree. I have no idea whether such a survey exists and I, and I sort of doubt it, but all this is to say that I think scholars a certain level of scholarship is valued and some research should be introduced into a piece. I just, it just does seem to me year that years ago, as I recall, opinion pages often carried pieces from columnists, for example, that were basically lofty opinions that were based on impressions that they had and maybe on anecdotal evidence. And, uh, maybe it's because we live in an age that's so driven by data that people want. They want some numbers of some kind, so that there's some sort of a scaffolding for, for an opinion, uh, some sort of, some sort of infrastructure for it. So it's something that, uh, that I, I try to do and I try to convince clients to do as well. Cool.

I know one of the pieces that I was successful in placing, uh, in terms of an op-ed piece, I actually used some of the data that came from the Nielsen group on incomes for certain income groups, uh, education rates and all of those sort of things then, because that data was in there to support, uh, the position of the clients. There was an accountant's association that I did it for. Uh, we are very lucky to have that thing placed and what was really, really nice was completely coincidental that the op-ed appeared the same day that their, um, national conference began here in Nashville. So that wound up being a double plus for, uh, not only for me, but also for them as well.

Yeah. It sounds like that worked out beautifully.

One of the things that I heard you mentioned, and I think maybe we could give a wee bit of attention to, is the determination of, of, of the person wanting to go with the client. Let's say that, uh, because you mentioned here that sometimes you might have to try more than one place, you know, if you try this newspaper of that newspaper and they don't take it, if there's some, if you firmly believe in what you're saying, and you have the data so forth and so on that perhaps you need to be persistent and try other places as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you're lucky you get it the first time you submit a piece to a place and the place says yes, but that happens less than one would like. And sometimes you just kind of have to make the rounds and submit to a second place and a third place and clients in those cases just need to be patient. It you'd be surprised how many clients will ask you for an update five minutes after you've submitted an op-ed to edit. And yeah, I, I, sorry if that's indiscreet for me to say,

Uh, the facts of the facts,

We'll just have no sense of the process. And maybe they think that somehow this is, this is magic, and they're going to submit something to the wall street journal and the editor there is going to be jumping up and down saying yes, right away. So, but all of it takes time. I spend it, I need to counsel clients that editors need, uh, typically a day, two days, three days to respond. And so they need to be patient. Some editors are, uh, more responsive than others. In some cases, people take longer than that to respond or never respond or respond only if prodded a week or two later. Generally I have found that pieces that have merit we'll find a home eventually. And so persistence counts. Sometimes clients are surprised that I'm still at it submitting pieces that they may have already given up on. Uh, and so they, once a piece finds a home, they they're just, they're thrilled. And they say, well, thank you for persevering. Even though you've already collected rejections from six editors. And for me, it's just a matter of course. I mean, I just take it as a, given that that's what you do. There are different. I mean, there, there are more, there's more than one option out there. So if one place says, no, I take it for granted that almost certainly somebody will say yes. Anyway,

One of the things I wanted to bring up just before we close, and that is clients themselves, I've run across clients that are adamant that certain things be done their way, because as they told me, well, this is the way we always do it. I have a big problem with that because your professional skills and know-how and experience, no, this is not going to work. So have you ever been put in a place like that? A no, this is how we want to do it. And you have a decision to make. Have you ever found that sort of a circumstance facing you?

I have. And it's to be expected. I mean, if you're doing something like this long enough, you're going to encounter people who either think they know better than you about op-eds or who think that they generally have all the answers and enter just resistant to your counsel and where to follow their own direction. And all I can do is offer the best, best advice I possibly can. And I will say to clients, I hope that you understand that telling you what I'm telling you, that what your op-ed piece needs, because I want, I want this to succeed so may, so maybe we can work on that basis. I mean, it really is not an ongoing challenge in situations like that to practice the utmost diplomacy, because I never want to be anything less than absolutely professional, but at the same time, I never want to mislead people into thinking that they are the end all be all necessarily. And that just because they drafted an 800 word piece that it's, and maybe occupies some important place in American corporate culture, that that piece is going to pass mustard. So I, what it comes down to is, is eye level with people and on the whole, I think they appreciate it. And if they think I'm being difficult, they're entitled to that opinion. I'm just trying to do the best possible job.

Well, Bob, thank you so very much for taking your time to join us today. I really, really appreciate the information you've been party to all listeners and, uh, any closing words you have for us, for our listeners.

Well, I get the, um, I thank you for the opportunity Peter, to, to hold forth on this topic. It's close to my heart. I call myself something of an op-ed or because, and there is no 12 step program for it that I'm aware of. It's something it's something very close to my heart. I've been doing these sorts of pieces for a long, long time. The first op-ed piece that I ever got published came out in the New York times of all places when I was only 26 years old, probably to this day, one of the most, one of the most thrilling moments in my life. And so I see the potential for op-eds in, in a lot of places. And it's, I, I also think of it as a wonderfully and American institution too. It really is democracy in action. It's, it's free speech right there, plain for all to see. So we all get to have our say in an op-ed piece. So I'm, I'm a big believer and I'm glad to get a chance to talk with you about it today.

Oh, good. Well, my guest today has been Bob Brody and he has joined us from Martina franca in Italy. So once the game, we certainly thank Bob Paul Ruff for joining us on our program. And if you've enjoyed the show, we certainly would like to get a favorable blue review from you. So also let your colleagues know, and please you as well, join us for the next edition of the public relations review podcast. Thank you.

This podcast is produced by communication strategies and award-winning public relations and public affairs firm headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you for joining us.