Transcript
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Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast and to our listeners all across America and around the world.
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By now, we all know that the composition of the US population is changing and, as PR and marketing people, we need to understand this growth and how to best reach the market and these varying population segments.
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Now, according to Pew Research, the nation's Asian population rose to 22.4 million in 2019.
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Asians now make up about 7% of the US population.
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Now there are about 20 different Asian groups in America.
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In America, chinese Americans are the largest Asian group, making up 24% of the population at about 5.4 million.
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The next two largest groups are Indian Americans, who account for 21%, or about 4.6 million, and Filipinos, who account for 19%, at 4.2 million.
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Now, in descending order are Vietnamese at 2.2 million, koreans at 1.9 million and Japanese at 1.5 million population.
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The other groups account for 12% of the US Asian population, totaling about 2.7 million.
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So why is this important.
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My guest today can answer that question in detail and what you absolutely must know before you can penetrate the Asian American market.
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So joining me today from Dublin, california, is Dr Michael Soon-Lee, president of EthnoConnect.
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Now, ethnoconnect provides seminars, training, consulting and coaching on how to sell more products and services to Asian Americans.
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He has been a college professor, the marketing director for the state of California and a producer for ABC television network.
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He has written numerous books and has spoken on this matter around the world, and now he's on our podcast.
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Michael, thank you so much for joining us today.
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It's my pleasure, Peter.
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Thank you for having me.
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Well, now that we've read that introduction, what is the number one reason that we should want to market to the Asian American community?
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Well, Peter, as you mentioned, Asians are growing rapidly 7% of the US population and growing rapidly but the main reason is Asians in America have the highest median income.
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In 2020, the Asian average median income was $94,900, compared to white non-Hispanic at about $75,000, Hispanics at $55,000, and blacks at about $ 55,000 and Blacks at about 46,000.
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, so you're talking about a rapidly growing and very high income group.
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They have money to buy, Peter.
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Well, that certainly really causes you to pay attention.
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So now you also say that there are some absolute differences, that one must learn about the Asian groups before they can be attracted to marketing efforts.
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So, let's go down that list of what those absolutes are.
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Well, I think, as you mentioned early on, peter, the first thing you've got to understand is Asians are not one big, happy family.
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You mentioned the fact that there are Chinese as the largest group, then you have Asian Indians and Filipinos, and all of the 20-plus groups are very, very different.
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They all have different languages, different foods, different religions, you name it.
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They are very different.
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In fact, they don't all get along.
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My mother, when I was in high school and beginning to date, she said don't you ever bring a Japanese girl into this house?
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And I said, mom, we're Chinese, japanese, look just like us.
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She said absolutely not.
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No, they don't.
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And during World War II the Japanese were very cruel to the Chinese.
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Don't you ever bring a Japanese girl into this house.
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So, peter, what nationality do you think was the first girl I brought home?
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She was Japanese, but you know we are very different groups.
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So, as I mentioned, just for example, you know Asians in general have the highest median income, but we also have the highest poverty rates amongst, for example, the Bhutanese, which are Southeast Asians.
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They have the highest poverty rate of any group in the United States.
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So the first thing you want to do if you're trying to market to the Asian population is to figure out specifically which Asian group are you trying to reach, which Asian group has the most potential for your product or service.
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And then you want to learn about that group again.
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You know what, what is their favorite food, what?
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uh, you know what do they believe in, what holidays do they celebrate and those kinds of things, because each group is so very different but, one of the things we've got to understand when we're marketing is, unfortunately, in the first 30 seconds, most untrained marketers and salespeople who are trying to reach the Asian community or the Asian market is that unfortunately, in the first 30 seconds, if you're not trained, you will unintentionally insult an Asian customer at least three times in the first 30 seconds.
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Well, let's talk specifically about what those things are that could cause that sort of an insult.
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Well, it depends on whether you're meeting them in person or you're marketing to them through the media.
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But let's just take you know.
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If you're meeting someone for the first time in a store, on their doorstep, as a salesperson, what's the first thing we're taught to do as salespeople?
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Peter?
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Basically extend your hand and say hello.
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Absolutely, basically extend your hand and say hello, absolutely.
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But in the new global world and it's true not just for asians but for a lot of different cultural groups around the world you do not want to extend your hand to shake it.
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Because just to touch a japanese woman, a traditional japanese woman, a traditional asian Indian woman, a traditional Middle Eastern woman, you would absolutely insult not only her but her husband, her family, her religion and her culture to try and even touch her, because in those cultures the only people who are allowed to touch them in any way, shape or form are their spouse or family members, and that's it.
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So the question then becomes if you're meeting someone in person, how do you meet an Asian or someone who normally doesn't shake hands or would feel uncomfortable shaking hands?
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And the answer, Peter, is you greet them verbally Hi, I'm Michael Lee, Welcome to our store.
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And then you hesitate for a moment and see what they do first.
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What kind of greeting do they feel comfortable?
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Obviously, if they're comfortable in shaking hands, the man is going to put his hand out.
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Go ahead and shake it.
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Probably the woman won't do that.
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But if the man doesn't put his hand out now, what do you do?
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He's probably just going to nod to you, which is sort of the modern version of bowing, which has been done for thousands of years.
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But the modern version now is just to kind of nod to show you respect, sort of a half bow.
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And what do we do?
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We do exactly what they do.
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If they bow to us or nod to us, we do the same.
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And then we turn to the woman.
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Don't put your hand out, See what she does.
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She will most likely bow to you or nod to you and you just do the same.
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And that's true not just with Asians, but any cultural group around the world these days.
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Just do what they do.
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And, Peter, isn't that the ultimate in good customer service?
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Doing what's comfortable for the customer, not what's comfortable for us?
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You know I certainly agree with that.
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I'm hearing you say right now is the very first thing you need to do is understand what group you're dealing with and understand what the culture of that group is, so that you don't have a major snafu on your hands at the initial greeting.
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Yeah, and actually you don't.
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Even people born in the US grew up in the US many generations back.
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They may not feel comfortable in shaking hands, and it's not just because of COVID A lot of folks in the South they don't feel comfortable in shaking hands.
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They would prefer just to again just nod at you or smile at you.
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Prefer just to again just nod at you or smile at you.
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So how do you know how anybody wants to be greeted these days?
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Instead of assuming, just introduce yourself and observe and see what they do first and then just do the same.
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Watch and observe, watch and observe.
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But with.
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Asians.
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One of the things you got to watch out for is eye contact in America, peter.
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What does good, strong eye contact mean to us?
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Confidence is certainly one of them.
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And honesty too right, and paying attention and showing respect.
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That's what we believe in America, but in many Asian cultures, particularly the Japanese culture, some Chinese cultures and many Native American cultures, they don't look you in the eye out of respect for you, but for Americans, man, that is so uncomfortable.
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We're trying to get good, strong eye contact and they're looking away.
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Just be comfortable with it and recognize this is what they are comfortable with and just do the same.
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Just look down, look away wherever they're looking, but just don't try to get eye contact, because they can feel you try to look at them and it's going to make them feel very uncomfortable and that could actually ruin your whole relationship from the beginning.
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If you don't give them the same level of eye contact they give you, or if you try and shake their hand and they don't want it Again, you're going to be trying to recover from that for I don't know how long, but it could really make your relationship very uncomfortable from the very start.
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You know, this is some very, very important information.
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So let's keep on with this because, as I said, I had no idea, and I'm sure most of our listeners don't.
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So let's keep going with some of the other things we need to be aware of.
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Well, personal space is very personal to us, and in America we like to stand about two and a half to three feet apart when we're talking to someone we're not really very familiar with yet.
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And so in America we shake hands, we drop our hands, we're standing about two and a half feet apart, and that tends to be our comfortable personal space distance.
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But in many Asian cultures they are much more formal.
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The Japanese people will nod or bow to you and then they will take a step back because they like a lot of personal space.
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In fact, japanese probably want the most personal space of any group in the world.
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The problem with that is, for an American, when a Japanese person steps back into a more comfortable personal space, for them that's now like the Grand Canyon to us.
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So what do you think, peter, is our natural tendency?
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When a space opens up like that and that's not comfortable for us, what do we do?
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Something tells me we might want to step closer to them.
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Absolutely.
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That's more comfortable for us, but then that violates the Japanese person's personal space.
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So now, what do they do, peter?
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Shift into reverse again.
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They step back, we step forward.
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We chase them all over the room, and do you think that's comfortable for the Japanese person?
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Probably not very.
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Why are you following me?
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I want more personal space.
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It's what we would consider in America close talking and we hate that.
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And the Japanese hate people that close up their personal space as well.
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And it's a funny thing to kind of watch.
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At a party or a networking meeting You'll watch a Japanese person slowly backing up away from the hors d'oeuvre table and all of a sudden you know the American will follow them and eventually they'll be 15 feet away against a wall.
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It's hilarious and yet it's somewhat sad because you can see that relationship is not going anywhere.
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Well, let me ask a quick question then because is there a difference in these cultures depending upon the age of the person we're talking about?
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Because we've got a lot of, let's say, japanese students that are here going to school and so forth and so on, and maybe just out of school.
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How do they observe those cultural differences there?
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Well, it's not necessarily age, Peter, it's what generation are you dealing with?
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Okay, so the first generation of any group Asian, hispanic, black, it doesn't matter.
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The first generation who comes to the United States is the first generation, and they're the ones that have the most beliefs and we should talk about cultural beliefs in a minute but they're the ones that are the most uncomfortable with the American culture, the English language, and they're the ones that are most sensitive to these cultural differences.
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The second generation are the first generation to be born in the United States.
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These are Americans and they tend to be bilingual because they learn the language of their ancestors from their parents, but they also learn English in the school, so they tend to make good interpreters, but they tend to have less of the beliefs and cultural attributes of their parents.
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The first generation, the next generation, are the children of the people born here, so they are third generation and beyond.
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So as you become acculturated to the United States, you have less and less of these cultural beliefs and affects.
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But when that goes away, nobody knows, because culture runs very, very deep.
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In the old days, peter, you may remember we were taught that when immigrants come to the United States it was like a melting pot and we all contributed our culture, but we all became Americans.
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We became one big stew culture, but we all became Americans.
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We became one big stew.
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But today cultures tend to hang on to their language and their beliefs and their food much longer.
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So today we are more like a salad, where you can see all the wonderful ingredients and it's a wonderful meal.
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But you can still see the tomatoes and the carrots and the individual components, but it all comes together to make a really delicious meal.
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But again, it depends on how long they've been here.
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So if you're dealing with a student who's been in this country for five or 10 years, they're going to have less cultural impact and they're going to be more aware that Americans behave this way, that their culture and the way they did things was the norm.
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You need to be very sensitive as a marketer, as a salesperson.
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So if you're marketing to Asians, number one thing you've got to do is, in your ads, show Asians.
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But again it comes back, peter, to.
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You've got to know which culture.
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Because if you're trying to market to the Japanese, you better not show Chinese people, because they can tell Most people can't, but Asians can tell the difference.
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By looking at another Asian, they can tell Whether you're Chinese, japanese, korean, filipino.
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They can tell, and they can sometimes tell which generation you are.
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So number one use Asian images, use the right ones and be sure that you know how they use your product or service so that it's in the right context, because otherwise Asians will totally ignore ads that number one, don't have Asians in them and number two, don't have the specific group that they are.
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You know this brings up an interesting point.
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Then it sounds to me that if in fact, I've got a PR firm or a marketing firm that wants to reach an Asian group, I should have someone from that group right in the center of my team that's putting this marketing campaign together.
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Because these are the things I'm going to call them subtleties that most folks may not pick up unless they've been around a particular asian group for a long, long time yeah, and you want to have more than just one, peter, because that one may not be consistent with the group that you're trying to reach.
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So, for example, if you're trying to reach new immigrant Chinese Americans and you had me on your team, I would have not a clue about immigrant Chinese and their needs and their wants and their relationship to your product, because I'm fifth generation.
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My ancestors came here in 1855 and I speak no Chinese.
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Thanks to the California public school system, peter, I speak Spanish.
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So, I'm not going to be very helpful, but I can help you with Asian Americans because that's who I am, that's my level of expertise.
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So you've got to be very, very careful and recognize that amongst Asians there can be different dialects of different languages.
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If you're trying to do a print ad, if you're trying to do voiceover that has Chinese in it, for example, you know my ancestors came from China and they all spoke Cantonese.
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But the new immigrants these days coming from mainland China, they almost all speak Mandarin and they're not very compatible.
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So you've got to know specifically and there are village dialects of Mandarin.
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It just depends on who you're trying to reach.
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So working with a multicultural, really aware and really expert advertising agency who specializes in that particular group is really essential.
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Well, that brings up, I guess, a different set of questions in that how does one go about getting a particular Asian group to become brand loyal or appreciate the quality of a particular product?
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How would you go about suggesting that that happens?
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Well, the first thing you've got to do is think long term.
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You know the United States, our cultures you know 250 years old approximately.
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But when you're dealing with Asian cultures, some of them are thousands of years old and if they see one or two ads, it has virtually no impact.
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If you think you're going to go to a Chinese New Year festival and have a booth and have any impact at all, I think you're mistaken.
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Okay, they want to see you there time and time and time again.
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They want to see your ad over and over in different ways in different media, because they want to know that you're not just after their money, that you're here to support their community and that you do want to understand and you do want to help them with your product or service and you do want to help them with your product or service.
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So you've got to think long-term.
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You've got to have a budget planned out for years, not just an annual budget.
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You have to have a decade-long budget or longer if you're going to have any impact at all.
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And I think a lot of our advertisers and advertising agencies think you know they're going to do a Super Bowl ad and they're going to have all of this impact Doesn't work for the Asian community in particular, and so think long term.
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So this is part of I guess I would call it building brand loyalty, in that you've got to be in front of these groups for some extended period of time, as you said, more than just once or twice.
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Absolutely, and then you've got to understand what's important to the Asian community.
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We're not trying to lump everybody together, but in general, asians really appreciate quality because they want something that's going to last.
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Again, long-term culture they want.
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If you look at, for example, the vehicles that they drive, they will pay extra for something that has longevity, that is reliable.
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Asians generally are not very handy.
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They're not mechanical.
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They don't want to spend their time taking the vehicle in and having it serviced, just as an example.
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They want something that will last and they're willing to pay for it.
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So how does one, let's say, images, are there any particular images that respond, that they respond to, or words that they respond to in collaboration with developing your sales pitches?
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Well, again, what's important to Asians?
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The number one thing that's important to Asians in general is family.
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They are a very high context culture, which means the group is more important than the individual individual.
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And so if they don't see, for example, if you're trying to sell a car, you don't want to show just one Asian driving down the road enjoying, you know, the sunlight and the sunset.
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You want to show a family having fun out, having a picnic, doing things as a group.
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The word family is important, the image of family is important.
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That is number one, whereas in America we are a very low context culture and one is not better than the other, they're just different.
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But in low context cultures, you know, we are proud to be individuals, we.
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You could.
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You know you could never in asia sell one of those foam fingers that you buy at the stadium at a ball game that says we are number one, peter.
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You can't give those away in Asia Because they aren't number one.
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The family is number one and so it's a different mindset and it's hard for an American company, an advertising company, an advertiser, to get out of the American mindset of just driving down the road and you know, one person in a car.
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That would be an anathema to an Asian.
00:27:32.521 --> 00:27:37.835
Because, again, they're very frugal and they're very brand loyal.
00:27:37.835 --> 00:27:46.404
But it takes a long time to build brand loyalty, over and over again.
00:27:46.404 --> 00:28:01.861
But once you've got them, it's worth it, because not only are they brand loyal, they will tell their friends and family because in Asia they don't really a low-context culture.
00:28:01.861 --> 00:28:13.200
We rely on advertising High-context cultures, they rely on word of mouth and that word of mouth is crucial.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:20.714
But once you've got it, once you've built it, you've got them for a lifetime, but it's worth it.
00:28:21.170 --> 00:28:27.770
Well, let me ask you, because one of the things that has become popular around here, of course, are influencers Does?
00:28:27.770 --> 00:28:27.932
The.
00:28:27.932 --> 00:28:29.136
Asian community.
00:28:29.136 --> 00:28:39.660
Are there influencers among the Asian community Actually, I shouldn't say Asian because I understand the various subgroups there but are there influencers that the various groups listen to?
00:28:41.211 --> 00:28:59.251
Well, for the young people, obviously, there are social media influencers that they follow, but for the older group, the influencers are the heads of the family, the heads of the household, the ministers at the churches.
00:28:59.251 --> 00:29:08.025
The ministers at the churches, the leaders in the community, are the influencers.
00:29:08.025 --> 00:29:21.970
So it just depends on what product or service are you trying to sell to a particular Asian group.
00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:39.834
Their influencers are different, which is why it's important to either do your own research, which takes quite a while, or to hire a specialty agency that specializes in the Asian market and that just can you know.
00:29:39.834 --> 00:29:45.384
It's expensive, obviously, but it can save you a great deal of time.
00:29:47.732 --> 00:30:03.782
So one of the other things I'm getting out of this is that organizations or companies trying to reach that community really have to put in some time and effort to understand who it is that they're trying to reach, how to best reach them and who our messenger should be, so to speak.
00:30:05.131 --> 00:30:11.714
Either do your research or hire somebody my friend, bill Amada, at the IW Group.
00:30:11.714 --> 00:30:23.845
It's an Asian-American specialty advertising organization and they've already done the work organization and they can.
00:30:23.845 --> 00:30:30.869
They've already done the work, so you can either hire them or, if you've got something that's really unique and out of their area of expertise, you can do your own research.
00:30:30.869 --> 00:30:36.103
But it's going to take time and it's going to take a fair amount of money.
00:30:39.451 --> 00:30:54.759
Well, michael, this has been a very, very insightful and, in our short period of time, I mean, I've learned an awful lot in the short time we've been here together well, that's quite an honor coming from you, peter well, you know, the learning is forever.
00:30:55.122 --> 00:31:01.037
I mean, you continue to learn it is well, let me ask you now the amount of interviews you do.
00:31:01.116 --> 00:31:02.500
I figured you knew everything.
00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:08.181
I'm still learning, as I said, learning is forever it is.
00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:10.593
You provided an awful lot of information.
00:31:10.593 --> 00:31:18.806
Let me ask you now do you have any sort of closing remarks or wisdom tidbits that you would like to impart to our listeners?
00:31:24.970 --> 00:31:25.391
part to our listeners.
00:31:25.391 --> 00:31:31.605
Well, I just want to say, peter, you know, my work has always been around the fact that Asians are really not a lot different than anybody else.
00:31:31.605 --> 00:31:35.332
We have similar wants and needs.
00:31:35.332 --> 00:31:46.036
We all want good schools for our kids, we all want to be financially secure, have a nice home and who doesn't want any of those things, Peter?
00:31:46.036 --> 00:31:47.819
But there's just.
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:57.336
I think Asian Americans are probably the least understood of any group in America.
00:31:57.336 --> 00:32:33.009
I think we understand the LGBTQ plus community better than we understand Asians, and if we would just take the time to look past some of the differences that you see on the outside, you'll see how similar we truly are on the inside, and I'm currently writing a book called Beyond the Bamboo Curtain, just so people could understand a little bit of some of the challenges that we as Asian Americans have.
00:32:33.009 --> 00:32:42.099
There's a myth out there that we're all rich, we're all well-educated, and that's really not true.
00:32:42.099 --> 00:32:43.232
All well-educated, and that's really not true.
00:32:43.232 --> 00:32:55.281
We're an extremely diverse community and it's important for people to understand that diversity, even within the Asian community, but to just get to know us as people.
00:32:55.990 --> 00:33:06.432
There's been a lot of violence against the Asian American community simply because people don't understand us Again.
00:33:06.432 --> 00:33:09.920
They think you know we have all of the advantages.
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:11.383
Well, we don't.
00:33:11.383 --> 00:33:16.362
We've been discriminated since the first day we arrived in the United States.
00:33:16.362 --> 00:33:24.534
There have been laws that have tried to keep us out of this country, that have kept us from becoming American citizens.
00:33:24.534 --> 00:33:32.275
There have been laws that have kept us from becoming immigrants into the United States, and on and on and on it goes.
00:33:32.275 --> 00:33:34.279
It's just, it's a little different.
